Now alternative. And those songs have acoustic johnny parts. BUT they arent the main guitar. Thats my point. All songs have atleast a little bit of acoustic. Its natural.
In order for me to like a song it has to have good isntrumentals. Lyrics are cool if they good. But no lyrics/shit lyrics. I dont care. I hum the melody/rythm of a song while i walk around town. I dont sing the song.

So when people complain that isaacs new lyrics arent as good. I'm like... stfu, the guitar is awesome.

parting of the sensory, missed the boat, and spitting venom all feature acoustic johnny parts.

what i like about modest mouse is that the guitar is not the focus of the instrumentation- they incorporate a lot of treble instruments that are outside what most rockers use, and even the songs with normal 'rockband' style kits place more emphasis on vocal melodies, solid percussion, and excellent rhythm playing. i think the downside of 90's alt is that people who didn't understand it thought that good singers were out and heavy rock choruses, complex pop verses and yelling, ramoning, grohling vocalists were in. i think because MM started up just after the grunge bubble popped, they had a different understanding of that music than people who tried to throw themselves in while it was still alive and eyeing them like a Pisces. hindsight? whatever it was, isaac understands the formula for a hit- but ignores it in pursuit of better art. well- okay, 'the world at large' is a formula song. it's like watching a movie that's emmy earmarked. you can tell what flourishes were made, what was thrown in intentionally- and i like how isaac seems to care more about those cool things that weren't intentional but made for a great song, or at least helped express a powerful emotion.

i like his guitar. But i like isaacs simple stuff. To me, Johnnys style of playing didnt really fit and changed the sound. I like it how in some old songs, Eric Judy would play acoustic guitar. Bankrupt on Selling for example. I would kill to hear that song live. That "flair" Johnny has is a real Alternative sound.

well, it depends on what stuff you're talking about- the licks he writes tend to be very unique, you won't find many power chords (male or female) in any modest mouse songs, there are obvious exceptions to that rule, but if you're looking to riff like him there's a pretty good place to start in some stuff off of this album-

DASHBOARD.
dashboard is a simple marr adventure that displays most of his compositional strengths and his hang ups.
e|_9_7_7_79__55_3_333_55_3_333_|
b|_7_7_7_77__33_3_333_33_3_333_|
g|_7_7_7_77__44_4_444_44_4_444_|
d|_____________________________|
a|_____________________________|
e|_____________________________|
in this opening riff, the triad that marr creates by lifting his finger off of the ninth fret moves out of key in regards to the rest of the piece- this is not a flaw per se, but is an example of his practical as opposed to theoretical guitar instruction, he probably never knows what key he's IN- but neither did hendrix, so who are we to judge?

here's the issac brock guitar line, to illustrate my point.

G|_99997_9_99_9976

now isaac wrote this into the song to keep the entire song in the same key and also to (in tandem with the vocal melody) add variability to marr's main guitar line. it however remains a simple 3 note guitar line that is simply tossed onto the mix, demonstrating (if a little theoretical sense) no guitar skill whatsoever, i could have my arthritic communist stepdad playing this part.

the key with playing this style of adult alternative rock is to build a solid segue from position to position- the movement from the ninth to the fifth fret may have you holding your hand loose like a shredder, but if you can keep your fingers to the fretboard you'll find that in time your guitar clarity improves.

guitar skills are amazing. He plays slightly simple stuff. But adds fluff to it. Very had to replicate. I cant play any of his guitar stuff. Too hard. Makes my fingers hurt and i start whining.

not even a slightly good band compared to modest. how did that random old boslo end up there neway? not saying anything anything his guitar ability, which is decent, it just seemed so.... out of place, a completely different time and scene away from ours.

someone who agrees with me that The Smiths isn't THAT great of a band.

and jim from granddaddy is in. granddaddy = 1,000,000 percent better than the smiths

a killer frontman without a dedicated, creative, skilled and solid band is nothing.
i think a solid guitarist is also a cornerstone of rock music- you don't need some swedish virtuoso, but you NEED a lead guitarist.
i'd kind of like to see someone who has a background with bands i know of (like marr) then some dark horse kid, regardless of talent. it puts me at ease and lets me look for that artist's particular style in the song.

marr has a kick for effect pedals, but he really doesn't use AS MANY as most similar artists, and most of the TH stuff had it's effects added in the studio after the recording. so the guitar tends to remain simple with rare exception- a fuzz box in fly trapped in a box, and then normal level cutting or boosting tech for most of the other tracks.

so who's next? someone with blues inspiration might add a bit more flare to the irony isaac lays down, but if the blues-iness isn't subtle, it'll alienate a lot of fans. a quazi jack-johnson generic stoner kind of reggae sort of person would be unfortunate, i don't really like 'chilling' to MM, but someone who's fresh from the hardcore scene might turn them into some kind of grown-up fall out boy, and no. just no. it's not really just a 'eh whoever; kind of situation, it's the kind of choice that helps chart the course the band takes in the future, what if they pull a 'bush' and go all industrial/electronica on us?

I wouldn't mind a reverse to simpler sounds. Satellite Skin was a pretty good attempt, so was Whale Song. If they can keep that up, I'd be over joyed. I really don't care who is onstage, as long as I see my favorite trio up there, it could be some guitarist who they randomly picked up, and I wouldn't care. I think Johnny Marr was just a quick attempt to become more approachable and to attract fans of his. It worked on some level, and he added some good stuff to the band, but I would take some of Isaac's ingenious overlaying over it all.

whoever ends up with the job is gonna be experienced and capable, it's prolly not going to be some stoner who lives with his mom. it's really the lineup musically i worry about- will a smaller group translate into a simpler sound? or will isaac play all of the same crazy instruments and complex counter melodies through studio dubbing? is my first modest mouse show going to involve an army of studio musicians, nameless and wearing 'crew' T shirts? something i like about modest mouse is that it isn't really a 'formula' band- that's why they get vague terms like 'alternative' and 'indie' thrown around- the creative element of the band is so art that the songs can vary WILDLY from one another. i just feel like when you've got someone who can do that, who can bring all of these different elements together and make every track a new and fresh sound, but at the same time keep entire albums connected thematically, it's important to make sure that the group has the tools and expertise, the personnel required to TRULY express the creative element. i don't think modest mouse can really be contained in a bass, a guitar, and a drum kit. i think sometimes you need to bring in an accordion and a theremin and a kambiku(sp?) drum box and yeah, a kazoo or a banjo or a string quartet or a shin to help with vocals.
it's my only worry- a couple of tracks with the 'long drive' stripped down sound are fine, but a whole 'nother album?
then again, satellite skin kicks ass. so... yeh.

how about we stop asking for these crazy mixers/producers... and all agree on one. Why dont we just hope for ISAAC to mix his own stuff with his band. crazy. yes. boring to do. yes. but he should still do it. haha. If isaac was reading this, he'd be calling us all f***ing a**holes.

have you ever had a bunch of people on the internet break your heart? 'yall broke my heart over johnny. oh well, nothing new.

i think the mix(s?) on good news and we were dead both could have used more subtlety.
like- i LOVE how march into the sea picks up and just starts kicking out at the 2 or 3 second line, and they left the instruments REALLY loud in the track, it worked really well. but when ANY song with an agressive edge comes out that way it gets tiring- 'fly trapped in a jar' was a good example, i think the mix should have been more percussion and vocal focused, because like you guys just said- MM riffs can be kind of repetitive, and if more songs were mixed like 'spitting venom' (where the same four power chords count out the verse OVER AND OVER) with the melody instros down low and out of isaac's way, we get to appreciate the vocals more.

i think they kind of understood that on M&A, but the sound before that was so garage and raw it's hard to tell what the direction was (good times) and the sound after seems kind of commercial alternative (which SHOULD be a contradiction) maybe i'm wrong, but i think that whoever did it for we were dead- well, IDK, i'd like to see what someone who already has a lot of music experience (actual 'i'm in a band' experience) would bring to production on the next effort- lets' get michael stipe in there. lol.

to Tie the Lake Down. When i heard that there was a new song called Perpetual Motion Machine, i thought it might have meant there would be a new album. instead of just the ep, it would be upgraded.

I got my Autumn Beds vinyl two days before it came out on Itunes. But I do love the song, no matter how repetitive it might be. I already pre-ordered Perpetual Motion Machine. Fingers crossed it will be awesome!

those complaints ended in a punch to the face. not really. but those were the complaints. That songs IS repetitive, but its a great sound. So i want it to be repetitive, that way i can keep hearing it. Mmm so good. Btw, my Autumn Beds Single came into the mail today. WAHOOOOOOO!!!!! sounds so good. I wanna order perpetual motion machine. but idk.

Really? People were complaining it was repetitive? Instrumentally, a lot of Modest Mouse songs are repetitive. Broke, Custom Concern, Wagon Ride Return, Tiny Cities Made of Ashes, Cowboy Dan. So I don't know. Lousy complaint if you ask me.

Whale Song was amazingggg. But for some reason alot of people say it sucked because it was repetitive. But the song was in vain of Mechanical Birds. It was great. Maybe Brian Deck moved record labels. It would be cool to have Calvin Johnson again. Just because he started them off. But Dub Narcotic doesnt exist anymore i dont think.

I don't know if the record company does, but if it does, why not let Brian Deck back on board? He did such a fantastic job on M&A and that was on Epic Records. I don't know, I just don't like Dennis Herring, although Whale Song did come out pretty bad ass.

know if Joe is leaving for sure. All I know is that he is the new drummer for the Shins. But I don't know if he wont play shows with Modest Mouse anymore. Theres nothing official on him quitting, but it will be hard to play two tours at once if you know what I mean. The only person we are 100% sure about is Johnny leaving. And I dont think they get to pick their producer. I thought the record labels picks for them.

If Johnny is leaving, and Joe is leaving that just basically leaves Isaac, Eric, Jeremiah, and Tom, which is a really good solid team. They'll probably get another guitarist (Dann again anybody?), and I think they'll have a pretty solid sound again. The question is, are they going to still use Dennis Herring to produce?

I get fights with my gf on whether the Smiths or Modest Mouse. Both groups had johnny, and both groups have a singer with a "yelp". I am only CON johnny because the band was cool when they were small. just like 3 guys jamming. now its like 20 dudes (not really) although like 2 of them quit. Joe Plummer is drumming for The Shins. And Johnny is with the Cribs.

Turns out he's not "officially" in the band anymore. He's officially part of his band The Cribs. He says he likes playing in Modest Mouse, and may appear in later albums, but The Cribs is his main focus, he'll just randomly mess with MM. Sad, but true.

Me on the other hand, although I do love the Smiths, am completely unaffected. Johnny is a good guitarist, I'll give him that, I just didn't think he fit with Modest Mouse. I don't know.